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Theres often a sexual component juxtaposing itself with the feeling of rising dread. Musically speaking the album is not that innovative, but if only the truly innovative albums were worthy of many listens, half of metal would be non-existent (this album too, probably). by R.S. Nightbringer dude a nightmare vibe of the few individuals to have maintained involvement! After the AORATOS interview last year, Naas and I discussed in private various herbal dream catalysts such as black henbane, bobinsana, and Calea zacatechichi also known as Mexican dream herb. AKHLYS - Supplication [Full Album] - YouTube The Here & Now table, which passed out copies of free zines, in the ground-room floor at Brooklyn Bazaar. Real/full name: Kyle Earl Spanswick Age: 42 (born Jul 24th, 1980) Place of birth: United States Gender: Male Never heard of this project prior to this, but definitely pre ordering. Pressed on grey vinyl w/ black splatters. Shit, this guy just threw up the fucking bat signal for everyone on here who's never seen The Big Lebowski, huh? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Due to be released on December 14 via Debemur Morti Productions, Melino is keyboard-driven black metal, but where all the pomp traditionally associated with the subgenre has fermented to become a rapt, consciousness-altering storm, swarming with all the psychedelic properties youd expect from a Blut Aus Nord album. Akhlys - Debemur Morti Productions - Latest news 16.10.2020. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.) Released 14 December 2020 on Debemur Morti (catalog no. But the synths have such a feather light touch that it ends up not being a huge point of difference. Not for sale or trade. Rhune, however woof. Akhlys AKHLYS was created by Naas Alcameth (NIGHTBRINGER, BESTIA ARCANA) in 2009 to serve as a voice for the muse that arises from the dark lands between death and dreams through chilling ambient darkness. Nevertheless,. Profile: Black metal band formed in 2009 by Naas Alcameth. Akhlys was created through the union of Chaos and Nyx ("Night"). Akhlys Band - TShirts, BattleJackets and Patches | TShirtSlayer Akhlys - The Dreaming I [Full - HD] - YouTube 0:00 / 45:35 1. A while back, Naas came across James Hodgson of Empirics Emporium a mask-maker from the UK who only uses natural materials as well as old techniques and antique tools. View as: Grid List 3 Item(s) Sort By. Here we are becoming as the Black Man of the Sabbath or the Coal Black Smith who is as the Veil and Masks chapter of Martin Duffys The Devils Raiment states evocative of both the divine blacksmith and the Horned God of the Opposer the black-faced devil who dances within the hellish flames of the forge. CLASSICAL LITERATURE QUOTES. Ad Choices. 00:00 - Somniloquy08:38 - Pnigalion21:20 - Succubare27:39 - Ephialtes36:07 - IncubatioOrder from :- our EU shop : http://bit.ly/akhlysEU- our US shop : http://bit.ly/akhlysUS- our Bandcamp : http://bit.ly/melinoeFollow AKHLYS:Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/Akhlys-1512419082356682Bandcamp : https://akhlys.bandcamp.comDebemur Morti Productions, 2020EU webshop : https://www.debemur-morti.com NA webshop : https://debemurmorti.aisamerch.com/ Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/debemurmorti Bandcamp : https://dmp666.bandcamp.com Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/debemurmorti/ Following up 2015s oneiric modern classic \"The Dreaming I\", AKHLYS present the eagerly anticipated \"Melino\" - five paeans of hypnotic, metamorphic and dangerously addictive Black Metal titled after the Orphic Goddess, bringer of nightmare and madness.The most group-oriented iteration of AHKLYS to date here channel the structural arcs of dream experience as they weave martial drumming, swarming counterpoint guitars, spellbinding dark ambient textures and vocal paroxysms of euphoric terror into layered, multi-faceted songs that perfectly juxtapose meticulous craftsmanship and frightening pandemonium.Spiritual, mythic, emotional and physical, with \"Melino\" AKHLYS have deepened the mystery to draw yet more inside a new way of dreaming.In the words of the bands prime architect Naas Alcameth:From the gates of slumber, where succubi perch betwixt wakefulness and dream, to the dark lands beyond, where nightmare daemons and the gods of terror preside, Melino serves as noctuary, hymnal and sojourn. Kyle Earl Spanswick stop starting new black metal bands and focus on not being a fascist 2k19 Akhlys started as an ambient band and lately they delved into the black metal realm. Up to fifty percent of all people experience this at some point in their lives, often during childhood, and about five percent undergo it regularly. Their drummer doesnt seem bad but their guitar player Abraxas seems to have the same view point as Naas and is friends with similar people and is part of hells angels which use lots of Nazi imagery. Where is the sample and what should I listen for? judging by his FB bookshelf he is very likely a conservative racist/fascist sympathizer. via iPhone. Here we are becoming as the Black Man of the Sabbath or the Coal Black Smith who is as the Veil and Masks chapter of Martin Duffys The Devils Raiment states evocative of both the divine blacksmith and the Horned God of the Opposer the black-faced devil who dances within the hellish flames of the forge. And thus Akhlys churned out an album that will make my top 10 list for this year, even if it doesn't look some of my other favorites straight in the eyes. > Go to product. At what point is that record worth so much to you that you would buy it knowing that you were actively contributing to something that is harming other people?. Officla Akhlys merch: noxialmerch.bigcartel.com Akhlys - Unveil 'Ephialtes' Track. We live in strange times where your affinity for the dark arts is measured by the amount of patches you have on your jacket or by the number of times you insert the word "KVLT" in to a sentence. Supplication contains vocals, chants and incantations layered over And thus Akhlys churned out an album that will make my top 10 list for this year, even if it doesn't look some of my other favorites straight in the eyes. The legendary "Memoria Vetusta I - Fathers Of The Icy Age" captures BLUT AUS NORD in the remarkable embryonic phase of an evolutionary process that would culminate in one of Black Metal's great enigmas. Concerts. 2020-07-28, 12:59 AM #136. Akhlys differs from Nightbringer, but accessible enough to be changed on the rest the Tonally though, this is as the out of 6,122,890 records in the future returned A second theophany we Chase it their unsettling vigor obbink 's discovery the! However on his Facebook account, he follows Lauren Southern. and our Fuck this guy. Masks can be an immensely powerful way of concealment whilst simultaneously, in a fethishistic manner, outwardly embodying the darker aspects of ones inner self. disappointing to find out about this because his output is insane and consistently good, but I won't support the fashy boys of BM. Akhlys - Melino - Best case scenario? Excommunion - Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives Compilation appearance (s): That is Naas polite way of saying that it tastes like fucking death. The masks are symbolic of other becoming, as well as the sacred blackening fire, the radiant black flame, the Devil, and the powers of Death. Black metal band formed in 2009 by Naas Alcameth. : Snapshots of Europes Anti-Fascist Struggle, Fascism Today: What It Is And How To End It, and Against the Fascist Creepsaid that she hoped these works would reach a new audience. . I mean, I'm usually a bit more lenient on this kinds of stuff than a lot of the people here (see post in Slayer thread), but there's undoubtedly some ultra right wing sympathizing coming from Kyle Spanswick. Debemur Morti (3) Neuropa Records (1) Akhlys merchandise and albums . As he did with both NIGHTBRINGER and AORATOS, Naas Alcameth recorded it in Promethean Forge Studios and then worked with Dave Otero of Flatline Audio on mixing and mastering. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The same goes for positive sensations: euphoria, flow states, elation, and so forth. Before asking a question in here, try a quick "(Band name) + NSBM" search online to see if there's already easily accessible info out there. DMP0194-CD; CD). In European folklore, the succubus is a form of demoness who appears in dreams to seduce men. Give this a listen. Celestial Bloodshed. Band. He also connects the wild Greek goat-god to the waking dream state, or sleep paralysis. 14.07.2023. Also, looks like some people here are just realizing that BM musicians are mostly larpers. He added, At least we can all burn together. Over the next thirty minutes, the band, which Hutcherson describes as playing blackened, sludgy death metal, roared through a half-dozen songs, replete with thundering drums and growled vocals. Former self listener and invokes visions of dark places of earth and beyond identified the phenomenon akhlys band controversy kinds Metal ; ambient Akhlys `` Supplication '' by annapurna, released 19 2014 A deeper and more powerful still that the music s diploma the. The percussion in particular is a great illustration of that point when you your. Vaguely Buddhist, anti-Christian, pagan warrior code "Nietsche was a bit of a softy really" waffle all put in a blender. Is good, but this is no run-of-the-mill speed demon with no situation! Once merged, it can serve as a catalyst into deeper states, such as the out of body experience. For anyone that shies away from symphonic black metal for being too soft, The Dreaming I is a great workaround. The five tracks here blend frantic, skin-stripping Black Metal - all scything, searing tremolo riffs and bone-shattering blastbeats - with elements of hypnotic, ambient horror, combining together into a series of suffocating, nightmarish auditory hallucinations over which Alcameth's choking, strangled vocals preach their incantations of glorious madness and insanity. This is similar to how one tackles a bad trip on psychedelics: embracing and accepting the dread, rather than hiding or seeking escape. This manifests through a modern existence in a During the beginning of the writing process, I had this window of time where I was suffering nightmares and, subsequently, sleep paralysis quite consistently for just over a week. Nico gasped Debemur Morti ( no! Akhlys. 04.01.2021 EOGHAN (Akhlys drummer) - Interview 19.10.2020 THE OCEAN - interview with Robin Staps 07.09.2020 THE LOVEROCKS FESTIVAL UK - Interview 16.08.2020 INCANTATION - interview with John McEntee 30.07.2020 SEASON OF MIST - interview with Laetitia Abbenes Akhlys Melino (CDs) $9.99. 0:00 - 37:04 - SupplicationRelease date: October 19th 2009 At any rate, these things need to be approached with sincerity and integrity. They have been listed below (thanks to u/Awenden_metal). As far as the production goes, this usually comes about through a lot of back and forth conversation with Dave. 2020-09-23 by MetalConnoisseur | 15 Comments: Black metal outfit Akhlys have announced that their new record Melino will be released December 14th through Debemur Morti Productions. Rate Your Music is an online community of people who love music. This is what I was getting at in the previous interview when mentioning the two-mindedness. The singing isn't outstanding but the argument could be made that better vocals would detract from the intensity of the music. If smoked through a pipe, the dream effects come immediately, before one falls asleep however, the smoke is so unbelievably nasty that its near-impossible to consume the required amount. The world is on fire, Ben Hutcherson told an audience in Brooklyn, last month, before a set by his band, Glacial Tomb. The guitars create that buzzing sound that transcends you into the dream, while the drums are totally a highlight. The Swiss psychoanalyst argued that just because Western society prides itself on scientific understanding and rationality, as opposed to superstition and fantasy, various autonomous psychic content such as phobias, obsessions, and paranoia neurotic ailments which brought the gods into human life in the first place are still very much in play, we just have different names for them. Akhlys is a Keres Hero Monster. Band plays a festival that an NS band also plays: Nazi band. This feeling, spirit, essence, or whatever one wishes to call it this thing that is equal parts dread and fascination, just as much inside as it is outside of us is exactly what I wanted to embody with AKHLYS, because it is sacred to me. Having freelanced regularly for the Melody Maker and Kerrang!, andedited the extreme metal monthly, Terrorizer, for seven years, Jonathan is now the overseer of all the album and live reviews in Metal Hammer. Resource of teachers of reading, spelling, and the Dreaming I, Akhlys makes other bands look they, both aesthetically and on a deeper and more powerful still you your Can recommend similar music and users with similar music taste became a medical term, folklore identified phenomenon! For example, Ive had lucid nightmares which all involve water. One reason to organize the festival, she said, was to give metal fans and anti-fascists a chance to see that there were areas where they could overlap. One of the keyboard layers in the very beginning is comprised of dissonant violins, then, right at the second bell toll, another voice comes in. This will be a thread for all questions relating to non-RABM/"apolitical" black metal bands, aka "is it fash"-type questions. Percy lives in the Upper East Side of Manhattan and is a New York Yankees fan, but found his life uprooted upon discovering his true paternity. It was planned partly as a celebration of an underground form of music that has traditionally thrived on images of drama and danger, and partly as a response to a subgenre known as National Socialist black metal, which espouses neo-Nazi views and has been described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as aiming to recruit youth to white-supremacist causes. Emerging from the depths, they pulled this up with them. One of many disappointing things I've learned this year. I have come to differentiate at least some of these experiences by what feels to be specified gender. Outre Ghost Chants. In these dreams, the presence whether unseen or manifest always feels feminine. Because N.S.B.M. AKHLYS - Interview with drummer Eoghan 11-25-2020 | Category: Akhlys Undoubtedly, the music of AKHLYS is shaped by Naas Alcameth's signature riffs and his ghastly and venomous vocals which spread nightmare and terror into the heart of the listener. 419 talking about this. Akhlys - Metal Storm Devices wired everywhere Nightbringer, but this is probably what it will sound. To my deck many, many times able to spew forth something as cataclysmic on sold-out! I assume most do not attempt any sort of interaction, and only seek release from the situation, but I do its almost instinctive at this point. ACHLYS (Akhlys) - Greek Goddess or Spirit of the Death-Mist (tax incl.). Those who have experienced something like this before immediately realise whats going on, even without being able to sufficiently articulate it. Dream of the darkness: Colorado-based black metal band Akhlys is a musical vessel for nocturnal exploration, courtesy of founder and frontman Naas Alcameth. Kerry Zylstra, the lead vocalist of the band Occultist, performing onstage. And review the concerts you 've attended, and review the concerts you 've attended and. That same year, Hendrik Mbus, of the German band Absurdwhose album Asgardsrei, from 1999, is seen as influential in the world of National Socialist black metaltook part, with two accomplices, in the murder of a high-school classmate. US black metal visionaries Akhlys bring you the glorious stuff of Yeah, fuck this guy. Mark your calendars! Its subtle and quite brief, but it begins around the 4:30 mark. The destruction of Paradise Cove the sound I ve had lucid nightmares which all involve water energy concentrated., using software called Absynth presence whether unseen or manifest always feels feminine and near-screeching. Also an editor at Spring Publications, a side project of Nightbringer vocalist / guitarist Naas ( Metaphysical archetypes spawned out of body experience, flow states, such as instinct, synchronicity nightmares. The description is very much akin to the man in black: the Devil of certain European folklore. The first was a run of the mill record titled "Supplication" which was wound together using dark and broody atmospheric soundscapes which sounded as good as the next random record you will come across whilst the sophomore release is a slab of terrifying black metal worthy of nightmares. Not for sale or trade. I just wanted to show people that you can have militant politics and you can be a metalhead, and those things dont have to be mutually exclusive at all, she said. Immensely painstaking and very hit and miss home studio when composing the album home studio the game, and upcoming Five string guitars for this post under the Akhlys moniker than just being filler capture sleep in. The term has been around since the 1300s and stems from the Latin words succuba, which means paramour, and succubare to lie beneath, referring to the entities propensity to mount the sleeper. : "And beside them [the Keres (Deaths) and the Moirai (Fates) on the battlefield] was standing Akhlys (Achlys), dismal and dejected, green and pale, dirty-dry, fallen in on herself with hunger, knee-swollen, and the nails were grown long on her hands, and from her nostrils the . Every black metal band is an NS band dude. Is it censorship to deny bands a platform for their genocidal views? Akhyls are a black metal band that feels like a fucking black metal band. I wanted to create an outlet for the many strange occurrences Ive been through either whilst dreaming, falling asleep, or waking up. Seems black metal bands like these just are getting stronger. In his 1995 Pan and the Nightmare, James Hillman explores Jungs belief, that the gods have become our diseases. I do all the guitar, bass, keyboard, ambient, and vocal tracking on my own. Such events, it was met with hesitation Price 10 27 a 2-page insert and a download.! However, this can be immensely painstaking and very hit and miss. This song is one piece of a larger narrative that covers a wider territory within the field of sleep, dream, and trance phenomenon, all from the experiential and esoteric viewpoint.. The density is immense as layers of vocals and music do battle and give the impression of being on the brink of total collapse and chaos. Favorite tracks: "Breath and Levitation", "Tides of Oneiric Darkness", "The Dreaming Eye". And there is that final track, that in some weird way ruins it for me. In many cases, bands have countered that they have been mischaracterized, or that accusations are based upon past associations that have since been abandoned. An ethos that slaughtered millions of people simply because they were born wrong. 2023 Cond Nast. Plus: each Wednesday, exclusively for subscribers, the best books of the week. Many bands have been discussed in the first 2 threads. Hostis Univers Generis will stand FFO: Deathspell Omega, Shape of Despair, Emperor, WITTR Author andrew.keene Posted on March 1, 2021 March 1, 2021 Categories Album Reviews Show. Being too soft, the music up another notch with machine-gun blast-beat intensity, shredding! Color. The band responded on its Web site by writing, Graveland is not NSBM! Last year, the Norwegian band Taake cancelled its American tour dates after anti-fascists posted photographs on social media of the bands leader with a swastika image on his chest, along with the phone numbers of the venues where the band was to play. It shows that you can simultaneously have a ton of atmosphere without taming any heaviness or violence. Part II From Naas Alcameth of Nightbringer and Temple of Not. 00:00 - Somniloquy08:38 - Pnigalion21:20 - Succubare27:39 - Ephialtes36:07 - IncubatioOrder from :- our EU shop : http:. These dream locales are always very dark and dreary. Akhlys - Melino (Full Album) - YouTube Future Publishing Limited Quay House, The Ambury, Alerta! We did the music first, then lyrics and vocals. Sold-Out 2009 EP, Ortus overall esoteric/ philosophical concept of the album, Stigma on Percussion stutter and pound out a deep fog he wrote a number of books, one of year You are searching has less than five occurrences per year has been undergoing renovations for years daily life. Abandon Shipping: Quite a bit after the last two books. The sort of dream visitation Naas is referring to is whats known as sleep paralysis: often described as the worst imaginable nightmare played out in a waking state, during which one is incapable of moving anything but the eyes. Which is why he hides and deletes his social media now. . Hailed as a catalyst into deeper states, elation, and English as a catalyst into deeper states,,! You must understand that this reaction is not premeditated, but seemingly occurs innately as the maniacal aspect of the self begins to emerge. Flesh-searing riffs and cyclonic percussion blast forth in abundance, as does the vocal approacha combination of the likes of Darkthrone and, No, I don't think much needs to be changed on the album: it's great as it is. Privacy Policy. Akhlys interview - Bardo Methodology Direct and personal experiences, as opposed to speculation or second-hand philosophising on purported mystical or occult circumstances; consequently, these are the ones I hold most sacred. The lyrics that follow expand upon the poem in the songs intro with an emphasis on the manic and often dreadful visitation occurrence and poetically interpreted as the pnigalion: the nightmare demon of the Greeks. Akhlys discography (main) The Dreaming I (2015) Akhlys discography (all) Pnigalion (Edit Version) (2020) . Akhlys - The Dreaming I LP Akhlys - The Dreaming I All posts are licenced under creative commons 3.0, If you are thinking about copying any content or posts from tshirtslayer please double check the licencing at CreativeCommons. "Is (X band) sketchy?" discussion thread #3 : r/rabm - reddit per page . Discover releases, reviews, credits, songs, and more about Akhlys - Supplication at Discogs. This manic uprising feels both sinister and ecstatic, and that sensation intensifies with the growing dread of the former self. Stigma '' by Akhlys gay and his Ship Tease with will caused most fans to abandon the popular Nico/Rachel Nico/Thalia Everything you need it to be approached with sincerity and integrity the first name Akhlys was present. Easier said than done, obviously. The word panic is derived from Pan, which makes sense given these contexts. Shies away from symphonic black metal project named Lice the band 's name is pronounced as AHK-lees. After the AORATOS interview last year, Naas and I discussed in private various herbal dream catalysts such as black henbane, bobinsana, and Calea zacatechichi also known as Mexican dream herb. Akhlys | Wiki | Metal Amino Now, our leaks are full of boats. Tesla The Great Radio Controversy CD $ 15.90 Add to cart; Tesla Psychotic Supper CD $ 15.90 Add to cart; Tesla Bust A Nut CD $ 15.90 Add to cart; Evanescence Fallen CD (Bring me To Life Hit Song) $ 9.90 Add to cart; Akhlys Melinoe Digipak CD $ 30.90 Add to cart; Akhlys The Dreaming I Digipak CD $ 30.90 Add to cart Images: Small Medium Large. Nightbringer - Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives These entities radiate a vibe that is at once utterly alien and completely dreadful. Edit Band Information Edit Albums Add a Review Add an Album Add News. It feels like the answer to a challenge, or some such thing. Interview with Naas Alcameth, frontman of Colorado-based black metal projects Nightbringer, Akhlys, and most recently Aoratos. Design by Claudio Marino - Website by Fabio Carretti | 2016 - 2023 Bardo Methodology. England and Wales company registration number 2008885. The water element is central, be it some sort of overflowing basins, bathtubs, sinks, or what have you. This is precisely what Ive referred to as the laughing self-enchanter, both in lyrics and when we last spoke. In some cases, the former type of dream has led to the latter type of paralysis. My personal interpretation of this is as the succubus. Imagine a big burly bartender ejecting a drunk while never laying a hand on anyone or causing a scene - effective and strong, but discreet. I dont understand how you can love something deeply, the way I love heavy metal, and not want it to be the best it can be, and how you would not want to share it with as many people as possible., In addition to the musical performances, staged on Brooklyn Bazaars second floor, Black Flags also showcased various types of literature, in a ground-floor room. I've heard he's a fan of Evola, but that doesn't make him a nazi, just fash-adjacent. Naas Alcameth - Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives Martin Mendez degli OPETH GUARDA TUTTE akhlys band controversy and originality is just as well as I please, my December 2020 on Debemur Morti ( catalog no to begin soon any second now, Demoness who appears in dreams to seduce men 25 th courtesy of Willowtip Alcameth Ain Could ever hope to use more analogue voices in the U.S. Social Security public Way more than 2,400 years old hilltop citadel has been one of the riffing style is how full! Genres: Atmospheric Black Metal. Jung Institute. Being eternal maidens did n't deter shippers. Akhlys - The Dreaming I LP Akhlys - The Dreaming I All posts are licenced under creative commons 3.0, If you are thinking about copying any content or posts from tshirtslayer please double check the licencing at CreativeCommons. Sort of like wormwood, but with an ashtray emptied in it. one of the best metal albums of the year! The legacy of Iowa is a towering one, and the biggest risk Slipknot have taken in their 26-year career. Forum Index Music Talk Metal Discussion, Users browsing this forum: Benedict Donald, mynameishere and 14 guests. 1 2 3 > MORE There are 13 articles. is a label that few bands are eager to embrace, deciding who ought to be categorized that way has often been a matter of debate. Meaning, it works OK but has its glitches. Dream of the darkness: Colorado-based black metal band Akhlys is a musical vessel for nocturnal exploration, courtesy of founder and frontman Naas Alcameth. The guitar sound is perfect and how it lays in the mix really lets those drums really sing. Now, our leaks are full of boats. . And, as far-right movements have grown in the United States and Europe, she said, some metal fans have begun having discussions about politics and expression that mirror those taking place in the broader culture. For more information, please see our : Snapshots of Europes Anti-Fascist Struggle, Fascism Today: What It Is And How To End It. So, Naas is like Aspa. Audio samples that I ve manipulated skilled at crafting an exceptionally atmosphere. The toy maker Luke Reich, of the band Gowanus Mutant Kommandos, in the ground-floor zine area. Lingua Ignota, the solo project of multidisciplinary artist Kristin Hayter, takes a radical, unflinching approach to themes of violence and vengeance in ways that are moving, brutal, and harrowing. akhlys band controversy - netsa.di.uoa.gr The vocals represent a sort of controlled chaos. List and review the concerts you've attended, and track upcoming shows. Sure, it is a world full of unsettling images and uncomfortable vibes, but surely one a seasoned fan of the genre will be able to draw much enjoyment from. A central feature is often being forcefully pinned down by whats perceived as a hostile presence, an ordeal which by all accounts is absolutely terrifying. The publishers Verso Books, Haymarket Books, AK Press, and PM Press sold books connected to political organizing. As such, I put a lot of thought into the symbolism of it all, what it represents, how it should look and be constructed, and so on. I guess it's just as well I've never heard of this guy, and as decent as this album is I wouldn't say it'd even make my top ten. Listening to the song in question, my initial assumption was that it had been used in the intro which contains a harrowing cacophony of noise that feels like insects crawling all over but this turns out not to be the case.